Comments on: WTFWJD? | (on Christian cursing) http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/ Reforming minds. Reviving hearts. Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:31:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: paulburkhart http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-3504 paulburkhart Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:41:47 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-3504 All condescension aside, I think you made my point for me. The fact that you still felt free to fully type out the word "shit" without editing it at all shows that there must be times that you, too, feel it is appropriate to use what you're "really" thinking rather than a whitewashed version. So is it only okay to say curse words when you're angry at another Christian for thinking there are deeper issues to be addressed than simply the words we say? I refer you to the following article: http://bible.org/article/toward-evangelical-theology-cussing Thoughts? All condescension aside, I think you made my point for me. The fact that you still felt free to fully type out the word “shit” without editing it at all shows that there must be times that you, too, feel it is appropriate to use what you’re “really” thinking rather than a whitewashed version. So is it only okay to say curse words when you’re angry at another Christian for thinking there are deeper issues to be addressed than simply the words we say?

I refer you to the following article: http://bible.org/article/toward-evangelical-theology-cussing

Thoughts?

]]> By: john http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-3503 john Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:27:19 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-3503 Wonderful argument my friend, I especially agreed with your point on how words are simply sounds and meaning is only determined by intention behind said word. This argument has opened my eyes so that I have decided to use all given cuss words instead of there regular counterparts such as shit instead of poop. I can now fully embrace my authenticity. I hope I become a more real person from this. Wonderful argument my friend, I especially agreed with your point on how words are simply sounds and meaning is only determined by intention behind said word. This argument has opened my eyes so that I have decided to use all given cuss words instead of there regular counterparts such as shit instead of poop. I can now fully embrace my authenticity. I hope I become a more real person from this.

]]> By: “WTFWJD? | (on Christian cursing)”-Reform & Revive « the long way home http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-1046 “WTFWJD? | (on Christian cursing)”-Reform & Revive « the long way home Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:42:20 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-1046 [...] wanted to drop a quick plug for a new article I posted yesterday in the online magazine I run, Reform & Revive.  The article is on the topic [...] [...] wanted to drop a quick plug for a new article I posted yesterday in the online magazine I run, Reform & Revive.  The article is on the topic [...]

]]> By: amy http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-1045 amy Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:59:35 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-1045 great discussion, paul. love esp how you mentioned jesus as having the appearance of the glutton and drunkard. he was a wild guy. hope that point makes us slow to judge the "wild ones" next time. also couple thoughts regarding christians cursing: col 3:2-3 "set your minds on things above, not on earthy things. for you died and your life is now hidden with christ in god." and romans 8:29 about being conformed to the image of christ. and christ was wild... and he was HOLY. when we consider cursing as a christian, let's first be concerned about daily dying to ourselves and being conformed to the image of christ. we are image bearers of GOD. let us be more concerned about that role than trying to be "authentic". authenticity is great, just as long as it's not our focus. also, eph. 4:29 "let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." we are often the vessels by which god builds up the weary or shows his heart of mercy to discouraged soul. not to say grace cannot be extended if curse words are involved -- i believe they can. but let's be more concerned about expressing the grace that's on the heart of god than our rights to curse. k. that's it. thanks for writing this, paul. i think it WAS an extension of grace to many believers. :) great discussion, paul. love esp how you mentioned jesus as having the appearance of the glutton and drunkard. he was a wild guy. hope that point makes us slow to judge the “wild ones” next time.

also couple thoughts regarding christians cursing:
col 3:2-3 “set your minds on things above, not on earthy things. for you died and your life is now hidden with christ in god.”
and romans 8:29 about being conformed to the image of christ.
and christ was wild… and he was HOLY. when we consider cursing as a christian, let’s first be concerned about daily dying to ourselves and being conformed to the image of christ. we are image bearers of GOD. let us be more concerned about that role than trying to be “authentic”. authenticity is great, just as long as it’s not our focus.

also,
eph. 4:29 “let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.” we are often the vessels by which god builds up the weary or shows his heart of mercy to discouraged soul. not to say grace cannot be extended if curse words are involved — i believe they can. but let’s be more concerned about expressing the grace that’s on the heart of god than our rights to curse.

k. that’s it.

thanks for writing this, paul. i think it WAS an extension of grace to many believers. :)

]]> By: Brandon http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-1043 Brandon Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:57:23 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-1043 Well explained Paul and very much appreciated. I'd definitely say that for myself, at one point growing up I felt enslaved to cursing. I struggled not to curse. I desperately wanted to fuel my need for acceptance, so I got in the habit of swearing constantly. Ultimately in my speech, I wasn't authentic with friends at all. "Cursing" as you perfectly defined, within our culture wasn't apart of my daily vocabulary. Although, now I know I am sinful and am completely loved and accepted by Christ and this is authentically who I am, a sinner yet redeemed and am still being redeemed. I don't have to condemn myself when I fall into sin. You hit the nail on the head with describing the reality of how selfish our motivations are. Within this call to authenticity and freedom in Christ,(not just in speech) the reality of our sin, our internal struggle is exposed. Which We Have No Need to be Ashamed because of the hope we have through the love of God through the Holy Spirit. I really enjoyed reading this man. Well explained Paul and very much appreciated. I’d definitely say that for myself, at one point growing up I felt enslaved to cursing. I struggled not to curse. I desperately wanted to fuel my need for acceptance, so I got in the habit of swearing constantly. Ultimately in my speech, I wasn’t authentic with friends at all. “Cursing” as you perfectly defined, within our culture wasn’t apart of my daily vocabulary. Although, now I know I am sinful and am completely loved and accepted by Christ and this is authentically who I am, a sinner yet redeemed and am still being redeemed. I don’t have to condemn myself when I fall into sin.

You hit the nail on the head with describing the reality of how selfish our motivations are. Within this call to authenticity and freedom in Christ,(not just in speech) the reality of our sin, our internal struggle is exposed. Which We Have No Need to be
Ashamed because of the hope we have through the love of God through the Holy Spirit.

I really enjoyed reading this man.

]]> By: Joe Kim http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-1042 Joe Kim Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:49:27 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-1042 Interesting article to read. much needed topic to discuss. I have some disagreements here and there...but i'm not sure that i want to bring up anything that would destroy the heart of what you are trying to do. discussion, not dismissal is my intent here. i'm not sure that "authenticity" is a strong enough argument to allow for Xtn cursing. (I'm just saying that more discussion and 'fleshing out' is necessary here...plz, no-one call me a hypocrite as I tend to curse a lot!!). perhaps we could consider this. cursing, with its use of frickatives (sp?), and its tendency to exascerbate often volitile situations, should be put into the category of violence. Cursing has the tendency to lead to violence...or better yet..cursing has a peculiar tendency to breakdown shalom. the psychology seems to be the same as violence. when you curse, you feel better just like when you react violently against injustice, you tend to feel better (at least you think you will feel better). Frak!! this is getting long.. Interesting article to read. much needed topic to discuss. I have some disagreements here and there…but i’m not sure that i want to bring up anything that would destroy the heart of what you are trying to do. discussion, not dismissal is my intent here.

i’m not sure that “authenticity” is a strong enough argument to allow for Xtn cursing. (I’m just saying that more discussion and ‘fleshing out’ is necessary here…plz, no-one call me a hypocrite as I tend to curse a lot!!).

perhaps we could consider this. cursing, with its use of frickatives (sp?), and its tendency to exascerbate often volitile situations, should be put into the category of violence. Cursing has the tendency to lead to violence…or better yet..cursing has a peculiar tendency to breakdown shalom.

the psychology seems to be the same as violence. when you curse, you feel better just like when you react violently against injustice, you tend to feel better (at least you think you will feel better).

Frak!! this is getting long..

]]> By: Brice Ullman http://reformandrevive.com/2009/07/28/wtfwjd-on-christian-cursing/comment-page-1/#comment-1041 Brice Ullman Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:26:45 +0000 http://reformandrevive.com/?p=894#comment-1041 Paul, good post. I have great concerns for those who have great concerns about cursing (and this includes me several years back). In my experiences, those who are greatly offended at Christian cursing have to some degree misunderstood the Gospel and mission of our God. We all certainly do not have God’s mission figured out, but this is a fundamental fault. What these people are doing is equating morality with Christianity (with of course some catchy phrases slapped on the end!). This manifests itself in various ways: cursing, drinking (even a sip of it!), hair length, dress, smoking, . . . etc. The “focus” is God serving us, changing, us, that’s it. When we get saved, we clean our lives up. That’s the “Gospel.” I also find it interesting that these people/churches are often inactive in serving. Their gospel is the problem. There’s no mission to morality! Certainly there is an internal mission to get your own act together, but there is much confusion as to how to “reach” those rebellious teens or even other people groups for that matter. I think some of this misunderstanding can be observed in missionaries who attempt to convert the natives to wear pants and button up shirts, speak English, and eat hamburgers and hot dogs. One problem in our Western American culture is that we are too individually focused. GOD serves me. God changes Me. god blesses ME. No doubt God does change the individual, but we far too often are missing our service to God. God is on a mission and we are his vessels. A tremendous part of the Gospel is, first of all, being included in God’s people/salvation, but also living out His mission as the Body of Christ. [I do not intend to define the “mission of God” here and am leaving it ambiguous for the sake of the focus of this post.] To be clear, Christianity does contain facets that overflow into common morality. Excessiveness in drink, anger, greed, self-promotion, . . . are advised against by both. The problem with morality is that it is relative. Well intending Christians here may think it wrong to drink, but are they “better” than well-intending Christians in Scotland who do? Do they understand the Gospel of God better? Are they more sanctified? In any case, back to the focused topic: profanity, it is sounds that we make. How are sounds themselves wrong? What if I grumble and unknowingly make the sound of a curse word in Chinese? Did I sin? All sounds are communication. All words are rhetoric to communicate a particular point. Certain words communicate better than others (good use of the movie clips Paul). As you said, Paul, it is the overflow of the heart that is wrong. Am I speaking in anger? If so perhaps I should use the permitted words: freakin’, gosh darnit, or just leave it at, “son of a.” Certainly this is absurd. Whatever is said has come out of anger/slander; the noise makes no difference. Perhaps it will benefit to give an example in another context. I just came back from the beach with my family. Every girl there wears a bikini. I could not possibly go to the beach without a girl in a bikini crossing my eyesight. Did I sin by seeing a girl in a bikini, or is it when I lustfully look with intention? The two are certainly not the same. So I conclude with suggesting that all things are clean in themselves. I do not think it is a matter of holiness. We make them unclean. It is with anger/slander/perversity that we make profanity profane. The problem that faces us today is how to work with Christians who have this misunderstanding. It is wrong if we cause divisions by the exercise of our freedom, but on the other hand, it is most definitely wrong if we allow professing Christians to misunderstand the Gospel of Jesus Christ (as I have suggested that they do). This unfortunate misunderstanding damages genuine efforts to live out God’s mission with integrity. As with most matters in the Church, this is a delicate issue that must be addressed with care. Where/how do we begin? Peace. Brice Paul, good post. I have great concerns for those who have great concerns about cursing (and this includes me several years back). In my experiences, those who are greatly offended at Christian cursing have to some degree misunderstood the Gospel and mission of our God. We all certainly do not have God’s mission figured out, but this is a fundamental fault. What these people are doing is equating morality with Christianity (with of course some catchy phrases slapped on the end!). This manifests itself in various ways: cursing, drinking (even a sip of it!), hair length, dress, smoking, . . . etc. The “focus” is God serving us, changing, us, that’s it. When we get saved, we clean our lives up. That’s the “Gospel.” I also find it interesting that these people/churches are often inactive in serving. Their gospel is the problem. There’s no mission to morality! Certainly there is an internal mission to get your own act together, but there is much confusion as to how to “reach” those rebellious teens or even other people groups for that matter. I think some of this misunderstanding can be observed in missionaries who attempt to convert the natives to wear pants and button up shirts, speak English, and eat hamburgers and hot dogs.
One problem in our Western American culture is that we are too individually focused. GOD serves me. God changes Me. god blesses ME. No doubt God does change the individual, but we far too often are missing our service to God. God is on a mission and we are his vessels. A tremendous part of the Gospel is, first of all, being included in God’s people/salvation, but also living out His mission as the Body of Christ. [I do not intend to define the “mission of God” here and am leaving it ambiguous for the sake of the focus of this post.]
To be clear, Christianity does contain facets that overflow into common morality. Excessiveness in drink, anger, greed, self-promotion, . . . are advised against by both. The problem with morality is that it is relative. Well intending Christians here may think it wrong to drink, but are they “better” than well-intending Christians in Scotland who do? Do they understand the Gospel of God better? Are they more sanctified?
In any case, back to the focused topic: profanity, it is sounds that we make. How are sounds themselves wrong? What if I grumble and unknowingly make the sound of a curse word in Chinese? Did I sin? All sounds are communication. All words are rhetoric to communicate a particular point. Certain words communicate better than others (good use of the movie clips Paul). As you said, Paul, it is the overflow of the heart that is wrong. Am I speaking in anger? If so perhaps I should use the permitted words: freakin’, gosh darnit, or just leave it at, “son of a.” Certainly this is absurd. Whatever is said has come out of anger/slander; the noise makes no difference. Perhaps it will benefit to give an example in another context. I just came back from the beach with my family. Every girl there wears a bikini. I could not possibly go to the beach without a girl in a bikini crossing my eyesight. Did I sin by seeing a girl in a bikini, or is it when I lustfully look with intention? The two are certainly not the same.
So I conclude with suggesting that all things are clean in themselves. I do not think it is a matter of holiness. We make them unclean. It is with anger/slander/perversity that we make profanity profane. The problem that faces us today is how to work with Christians who have this misunderstanding. It is wrong if we cause divisions by the exercise of our freedom, but on the other hand, it is most definitely wrong if we allow professing Christians to misunderstand the Gospel of Jesus Christ (as I have suggested that they do). This unfortunate misunderstanding damages genuine efforts to live out God’s mission with integrity. As with most matters in the Church, this is a delicate issue that must be addressed with care. Where/how do we begin?
Peace.
Brice

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