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> <channel><title>Comments on: Explaining Health Care Reform &amp; &#8220;Christian&#8221; Reflections Thereof [REPOST]</title> <atom:link href="http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/</link> <description>Reforming minds.  Reviving hearts.</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:01:57 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator> <item><title>By: paulburkhart</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-10462</link> <dc:creator>paulburkhart</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 19:53:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-10462</guid> <description>&quot;Mike&quot;-
my main problem with the rhetoric of both sides of this is that it just wants to make everything far more simplistic than it actually is--including what you wrote.
(1) Really? This was so clearly addressed during the debate, I was so surprised to see you say this. Just a simple Google search for &quot;health care tort reform&quot; brought up article after article saying the same thing: lawsuits IN GENERAL only account for 1.5% of all health care costs, much less &quot;frivolous&quot; ones (maybe it&#039;s just that Google &quot;liberal bias&quot;). Here are some examples that explain this well: http://goo.gl/Qpvn , http://goo.gl/Itzc7 , http://goo.gl/JsCvc
(2) This isn&#039;t a &quot;point&quot;. This is fear-mongering. Most other first-world countries in the world have a single-payer system like that. It&#039;s like saying &quot;you can&#039;t pass that bill, it will turn Congress into a Parliamentary system.&quot; It&#039;s not &quot;argument&quot; or &quot;reason&quot; to &quot;counter&quot; this. It&#039;s throwing out some buzz words that sound &quot;scary&quot; to us Americans and saying &quot;see? You don&#039;t want THAT, do you?&quot; Now, you may think that a single-payer system isn&#039;t the best way to do health care in America--and that&#039;s fine--that&#039;s just a different &quot;point&quot; than simply saying &quot;the scary and evil SOCIALISTS in Congress are conspiring to bring this about.&quot; Your statement assumes that there is something inherently wrong about this system (which it&#039;s not), that most people wouldn&#039;t want it (which surveys continually showed that at the time this article was written, they did), and that American ingenuity couldn&#039;t figure out a way to do it &quot;Americanly&quot;. That&#039;s a lot of unproven assumptions that need to be addressed before you can simply say &quot;they&#039;re secretly doing this; be afraid!&quot; Now, I personally, think those things have responses, and I don&#039;t think a single-payer system is best in the long-run, but I just can&#039;t stand the oversimplifying and fear and rhetoric-based things that keep being said about this.
(3) once again, this isn&#039;t a &quot;point&quot;. Maybe what you said is true. Repeatedly, Democratic and Independent have said it isn&#039;t true and you will be able to keep your insurance and Republicans are just twisting things; but maybe you&#039;re right. But, even if so, you have to show that this would be bad. Perhaps many people aren&#039;t satisfied with their coverage and costs, so slowly moving them off their already poor coverage may not be bad. Perhaps these &quot;triggers&quot; will be motivations for insurance providers to do what&#039;s necessary to keep their clients. And even if the time comes when this happens, people will either be happy and content, or unhappy and freak out. And then, our legislators, terrified of not being re-elected, will rush some solution through Congress for us. So, either way, this is not some &quot;doomsday scenario&quot;
Once you get corporations and insurance companies get so big that they are wealthier than some nations in the world, &quot;free-market forces&quot; break down. Money doesn&#039;t &quot;trickle&quot;, services/products don&#039;t get better, things don&#039;t get cheaper. The invisible hand is NOT the end-all-be-all of problem-solvers. Prices don&#039;t &quot;slowly start to fix&quot; themselves when it comes to economies of scale of this size. Look at cable companies, utility companies, and phone companies. As more competition has entered the mix, prices HAVE NOT GONE DOWN. It&#039;s NOT THAT SIMPLISTIC OF A SITUATION. People need to stop thinking in these black-and-white, either-or, good-and-evil, Republican-Democrat dichotomies that are KILLING us.
The Individual Mandate was first introduced by Republicans in the 90s. The bill that passed was very similar to the Republican bill offered to and rejected by Clinton. Most people are angry and see this bill more as a GIVEAWAY to the insurance companies--not the death of them. The CBO has said REPEATEDLY that it will LOWER the deficit. There are just as many opinions about this bill as there are people. This is complicated. I just wish people stayed away from talking points and overly-simplistic generalizations and actually gave some thoughtful, nuanced, and careful analysis to this. The above article represents what I feel is the closest to a REALISTICALLY achievable &quot;biblical&quot; picture of health care, NOT the most efficient or cost-reducing PER SE.
Do I think the that passed is ideal for health care? No, not at all. Do I have a comprehensive solution that ties up all the loose ends? No, not at all. Do I think there exists a single comprehensive solution that will tie up all the loose-ends for everybody? No, not at all. Do I think this bill will dramatically affect may day-to-day existence? Not really. Do I think the country will end or be radically altered in its substance or character if this bill stays in place.
Nope.
Not. At. All.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mike&#8221;-</p><p>my main problem with the rhetoric of both sides of this is that it just wants to make everything far more simplistic than it actually is&#8211;including what you wrote.</p><p>(1) Really? This was so clearly addressed during the debate, I was so surprised to see you say this. Just a simple Google search for &#8220;health care tort reform&#8221; brought up article after article saying the same thing: lawsuits IN GENERAL only account for 1.5% of all health care costs, much less &#8220;frivolous&#8221; ones (maybe it&#8217;s just that Google &#8220;liberal bias&#8221;). Here are some examples that explain this well: <a
href="http://goo.gl/Qpvn" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/Qpvn</a> , <a
href="http://goo.gl/Itzc7" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/Itzc7</a> , <a
href="http://goo.gl/JsCvc" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/JsCvc</a></p><p>(2) This isn&#8217;t a &#8220;point&#8221;. This is fear-mongering. Most other first-world countries in the world have a single-payer system like that. It&#8217;s like saying &#8220;you can&#8217;t pass that bill, it will turn Congress into a Parliamentary system.&#8221; It&#8217;s not &#8220;argument&#8221; or &#8220;reason&#8221; to &#8220;counter&#8221; this. It&#8217;s throwing out some buzz words that sound &#8220;scary&#8221; to us Americans and saying &#8220;see? You don&#8217;t want THAT, do you?&#8221; Now, you may think that a single-payer system isn&#8217;t the best way to do health care in America&#8211;and that&#8217;s fine&#8211;that&#8217;s just a different &#8220;point&#8221; than simply saying &#8220;the scary and evil SOCIALISTS in Congress are conspiring to bring this about.&#8221; Your statement assumes that there is something inherently wrong about this system (which it&#8217;s not), that most people wouldn&#8217;t want it (which surveys continually showed that at the time this article was written, they did), and that American ingenuity couldn&#8217;t figure out a way to do it &#8220;Americanly&#8221;. That&#8217;s a lot of unproven assumptions that need to be addressed before you can simply say &#8220;they&#8217;re secretly doing this; be afraid!&#8221; Now, I personally, think those things have responses, and I don&#8217;t think a single-payer system is best in the long-run, but I just can&#8217;t stand the oversimplifying and fear and rhetoric-based things that keep being said about this.</p><p>(3) once again, this isn&#8217;t a &#8220;point&#8221;. Maybe what you said is true. Repeatedly, Democratic and Independent have said it isn&#8217;t true and you will be able to keep your insurance and Republicans are just twisting things; but maybe you&#8217;re right. But, even if so, you have to show that this would be bad. Perhaps many people aren&#8217;t satisfied with their coverage and costs, so slowly moving them off their already poor coverage may not be bad. Perhaps these &#8220;triggers&#8221; will be motivations for insurance providers to do what&#8217;s necessary to keep their clients. And even if the time comes when this happens, people will either be happy and content, or unhappy and freak out. And then, our legislators, terrified of not being re-elected, will rush some solution through Congress for us. So, either way, this is not some &#8220;doomsday scenario&#8221;</p><p>Once you get corporations and insurance companies get so big that they are wealthier than some nations in the world, &#8220;free-market forces&#8221; break down. Money doesn&#8217;t &#8220;trickle&#8221;, services/products don&#8217;t get better, things don&#8217;t get cheaper. The invisible hand is NOT the end-all-be-all of problem-solvers. Prices don&#8217;t &#8220;slowly start to fix&#8221; themselves when it comes to economies of scale of this size. Look at cable companies, utility companies, and phone companies. As more competition has entered the mix, prices HAVE NOT GONE DOWN. It&#8217;s NOT THAT SIMPLISTIC OF A SITUATION. People need to stop thinking in these black-and-white, either-or, good-and-evil, Republican-Democrat dichotomies that are KILLING us.</p><p>The Individual Mandate was first introduced by Republicans in the 90s. The bill that passed was very similar to the Republican bill offered to and rejected by Clinton. Most people are angry and see this bill more as a GIVEAWAY to the insurance companies&#8211;not the death of them. The CBO has said REPEATEDLY that it will LOWER the deficit. There are just as many opinions about this bill as there are people. This is complicated. I just wish people stayed away from talking points and overly-simplistic generalizations and actually gave some thoughtful, nuanced, and careful analysis to this. The above article represents what I feel is the closest to a REALISTICALLY achievable &#8220;biblical&#8221; picture of health care, NOT the most efficient or cost-reducing PER SE.</p><p>Do I think the that passed is ideal for health care? No, not at all. Do I have a comprehensive solution that ties up all the loose ends? No, not at all. Do I think there exists a single comprehensive solution that will tie up all the loose-ends for everybody? No, not at all. Do I think this bill will dramatically affect may day-to-day existence? Not really. Do I think the country will end or be radically altered in its substance or character if this bill stays in place.</p><p>Nope.</p><p>Not. At. All.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-10461</link> <dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 18:54:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-10461</guid> <description>There are some things not covered in this napkin explanation: (1) There is a 4th player that affects costs: lawyers who sue both providers and insurers (and sometimes even patients), (2) HR 767 (all-government, single-payer health plan) is off the table, but still in the works, as the current plan is meant as a transition to socialized medicine, (3) there are triggers that will force all but a select few to eventually give up their current plan and probably even their current provider, so the promise you can keep that is a classice bait-and-switch.
If you bring in free-market forces by putting the responsibility and decisions back into the hands of the patients, then pass tort reform so doctors don&#039;t have to fear unreasonable lawsuits, then the prices will slowly start to fix itself.  Imagine that!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some things not covered in this napkin explanation: (1) There is a 4th player that affects costs: lawyers who sue both providers and insurers (and sometimes even patients), (2) HR 767 (all-government, single-payer health plan) is off the table, but still in the works, as the current plan is meant as a transition to socialized medicine, (3) there are triggers that will force all but a select few to eventually give up their current plan and probably even their current provider, so the promise you can keep that is a classice bait-and-switch.</p><p>If you bring in free-market forces by putting the responsibility and decisions back into the hands of the patients, then pass tort reform so doctors don&#8217;t have to fear unreasonable lawsuits, then the prices will slowly start to fix itself.  Imagine that!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tommy</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-2683</link> <dc:creator>Tommy</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:40:26 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-2683</guid> <description>I don&#039;t follow the logic of this argument at all (although I am British and so have a different cultural history to healthcare that needs to be borne in mind.
Given the assumption that it is God&#039;s plan for the church to look after those in need. Given that the church is not doing that how is the correct response to let it get worse until the church wakes up? Surely if God wants the church to look after those in need, he wants those in need to be looked after. If the church isn&#039;t doing it how can a Christian say that the state should not? The Christian&#039;s role has got to be to give the church a kick up the backside to start doing its job rather than campaign against healthcare reform that might see the needy looked after!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t follow the logic of this argument at all (although I am British and so have a different cultural history to healthcare that needs to be borne in mind.</p><p>Given the assumption that it is God&#8217;s plan for the church to look after those in need. Given that the church is not doing that how is the correct response to let it get worse until the church wakes up? Surely if God wants the church to look after those in need, he wants those in need to be looked after. If the church isn&#8217;t doing it how can a Christian say that the state should not? The Christian&#8217;s role has got to be to give the church a kick up the backside to start doing its job rather than campaign against healthcare reform that might see the needy looked after!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Leonard Riddle Jr</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link> <dc:creator>Leonard Riddle Jr</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:00:21 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-2333</guid> <description>In response to the rest of the post, I sense that you either were like-minded with the napkin guys to begin with or they brought you into their line of thinking. Every thought is clearly presented in a non-confrontational way. That makes it an easy read. That said, there is one point I&#039;m not sure is accurate. Slide 21 highlights the increasing annual profits of the insurance companies. The argument uses this data to essentially assure viewers that it&#039;s OK to pursue the insurer side of the problem and come back after providers later. However, that data may be misleading. What I mean is, reading only the balances of their accounting books doesn&#039;t tell you whether or not the growing incomes are keeping pace with the also growing outlays. Simplify it this way: year x/ income $2 - expense $1 = profit $1; year y/ income $5 - expense $3 = profit $2. The napkin argument is pointing out that the profits doubled but are ignoring how the profit margin shrank from 50% to 40%. These numbers extrapolated out to multiple years might be a frightening business model, especially to an industry being villified by an adminstration for politcal gain. I&#039;m not on the side of insurers, let me make that clear. I just don&#039;t want someone to be convinced by an argument that is concealing parts of the truth.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to the rest of the post, I sense that you either were like-minded with the napkin guys to begin with or they brought you into their line of thinking. Every thought is clearly presented in a non-confrontational way. That makes it an easy read. That said, there is one point I&#8217;m not sure is accurate. Slide 21 highlights the increasing annual profits of the insurance companies. The argument uses this data to essentially assure viewers that it&#8217;s OK to pursue the insurer side of the problem and come back after providers later. However, that data may be misleading. What I mean is, reading only the balances of their accounting books doesn&#8217;t tell you whether or not the growing incomes are keeping pace with the also growing outlays. Simplify it this way: year x/ income $2 &#8211; expense $1 = profit $1; year y/ income $5 &#8211; expense $3 = profit $2. The napkin argument is pointing out that the profits doubled but are ignoring how the profit margin shrank from 50% to 40%. These numbers extrapolated out to multiple years might be a frightening business model, especially to an industry being villified by an adminstration for politcal gain. I&#8217;m not on the side of insurers, let me make that clear. I just don&#8217;t want someone to be convinced by an argument that is concealing parts of the truth.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Leonard Riddle Jr</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-2332</link> <dc:creator>Leonard Riddle Jr</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:27:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-2332</guid> <description>Don&#039;t be so quick to assume that the abortion issue is settled. There is only one piece of legislation preventing federal monies from covering abortion and that can be overturned very easily. As a matter of fact, there have been subtle insinuations from Nancy Pelosi and others that suggest a move like that would be Act 2, should they be successful in passing the health care bill.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t be so quick to assume that the abortion issue is settled. There is only one piece of legislation preventing federal monies from covering abortion and that can be overturned very easily. As a matter of fact, there have been subtle insinuations from Nancy Pelosi and others that suggest a move like that would be Act 2, should they be successful in passing the health care bill.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: I sort of want this health care bill to die. &#171; the long way home</title><link>http://reformandrevive.com/2010/01/19/explaining-health-care-reform-christian-reflections-thereof-repost/comment-page-1/#comment-2329</link> <dc:creator>I sort of want this health care bill to die. &#171; the long way home</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:22:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reformandrevive.com/?p=1420#comment-2329</guid> <description>[...] [You can read more of my recent thoughts on health care over at Reform &amp; Revive Magazine in an article entitled &quot;Explaining Health Care Reform and &#039;Christian&#039; Reflections Thereof&quot;] [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [You can read more of my recent thoughts on health care over at Reform &amp; Revive Magazine in an article entitled &quot;Explaining Health Care Reform and &#39;Christian&#39; Reflections Thereof&quot;] [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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